photo of person from Peru Cerro de Pasco
Peru glossary


(PERU 18)






unemployed miner


Cerro de Pasco





Section 1
Felix, to begin with, can you tell us your full name and age?
Yes, of course, my name is Felix Aurelio Durand Campos and I'm 38.

Tell me, Felix, where were you born?
Well, I was born in the mining settlement of Goyllariquizca, in the department of Cerro de Pasco. I am originally from the department of Pasco.

So, you were born in the mining camp itself. Does that mean your father was also a miner.
Yes, that's right, my father was a miner...

What company did he work for?
He worked for the former Cerro de Pasco Corporation; he worked for the gringos.

Do you know at what age your father began working in the mining industry?
Well, I don't know exactly, but he was fairly young, very young. He was still single. He began in the mine and he got to be what use to be known as the mine captain at the Cerro de Pasco [Corporation]. It was a position they had before and it was the highest post for the workers. Since there were no Peruvian engineers at the time, it was a very important position. As a function of their experience, knowledge and effort, workers could take up the position. That's the post they gave him.

Where was your dad from? Was he also from Cerro de Pasco?
No, he came from Huanuco, he was from Huanuco...

So he was from lower down, as one approaches the higher part of the jungle, is that so? And what about your mum?
My mother is from Huanta, Ayacucho, she's from further away.

From Ayacucho? Does that mean they met somewhere else and then came to the camp, or did they meet there?
No, my father arrived in Cerro for work reasons. He arrived to look for work and became a miner and my grandparents, on my mother's side, arrived in Huanta, Ayacucho to work in the mine also. They arrived in the mine, in Cerro de Pasco, in that camp which was a charcoal mine...

So your mum was a miner's daughter?
Yes, she was a miner's daughter and she met my dad and they got married over at the mine...
Section 2
Tell me, how many years did your father work at the mine?
According to the information I got from my brothers and my mother, he worked in the mine for 32 years...

Thirty-two years. And how many years did you live in that mining camp?
Well, I lived there until 1974, I was in the coal mine.

1974? And your dad?
And what happened in 1974? We lived at the coal mine until 1974. We have a small business in the mining camp which my mother attended and suddenly my dad died.

He died? Why did he?
He died because he was hit by a lung disease, an illness which is very common among miners. There was a point when he had to be hospitalised on two opportunities then nothing could be done. It seems the disease was too advanced. So my father left me when I was young; he left me at the age of four and my youngest brother was...

Four years old? What year did he die in, then?
He died in, in 1959.

Ok. But, once your father died, you all still stayed in the mine?
Yes, of course, we stayed in the camp. My mother began to sell so that's how she was able to support us, selling.

And how many brothers and sisters did you have?
We were..., two younger ones were left. We were six all together, but the rest were older and they already worked. My eldest brother was also a miner; he got to be a miner.

At the same camp, at the same mining settlement?
Yes, at the same settlement and my sisters had already gone to other places. They didn't stay in the mine. Some got married.

Aha. So how old were you when you left the settlement in 1974?
I was 19 in 1974; that year I leave...

For what reasons?
Well the main reason that the Goyllariquizca mine closed in 1972, 1973.

Why did it close down?
Firstly, or according to the company, because the coal was finished, but, the truth, I think, is that there was a great labour conflict. The truth is that that mining settlement had the highest level of organisation among workers at the time, especially at the Pasco level. More so than in Cerro itself, more confrontational, more organised, so the Cerro de Pasco [Corporation] opted to close that mine. It opts to close and lay off and send workers to different mining camps of the Cerro [de Pasco Corporation]. The majority of miners were from the area, from the nearby villages of Chacallanta, Vilcabamba, Pucsi, Tambo, the entire Chaupihuaranga Valley that we know. So, a lot of people from there that worked in the mine also grew crops at the same time.
Section 3
Did they belong to communities?
Yes, of course, they belonged to the neighbouring communities so a lot of them retired and others agreed to go to other mining camps. A list to go to Cerro de Pasco, La Oroya, Morococha, Casapalca, Yauricocha and San Cristobal was made. The workers were then dispersed and the mine was closed down. Only the guards were left. So the business we had where, for example, we had been able to sell fish on credit to the people of the camp, to all the workers, declined when the mine was closed and the workers left. There was nobody left to sell to and we asked ourselves, "What do we do?" My mother tried selling in Cerro, but it was not the same. I had completed secondary school at that time and I applied for university in Huancayo, but seeing that I had no resources to finance my studies, I decided to look for a relative I had in the mining settlement of Yauricocha, which also belonged to Centromin. That's how I ended up going there to look for work and began my life as a miner. I also had to think about helping my mum, who was not doing well financially, and my brother who was younger.

So, you went from the Goyllariquizca mining camp in Cerro de Pasco to Yauricocha. Do you think that the fact that your father and your brother were miners influenced you to seek your future, your job, in the mines?
Yes, I can tell you, I think so because even when I applied for university to continue my studies, to have a profession, I wanted to be a mining engineer. Then the majority of my family - my uncles, cousins, brothers - were mine workers, or were technicians, mining professional, metallurgical workers; that's what there was on my side of the family.

There's a mining influence, was it a mining family?
Yes, so at the time I went to Yauricocha wanting to become permanent in the mine.

Was it already Centromin? Had the Cerro already been nationalised?
Yes, it was already Centromin, Centromin was new, the nationalisation of the Cerro de Pasco Corporation had just taken place.

Was your Goyllariquizca mining settlement the Cerro de Pasco Corporation?
Yes, it was the Cerro, but after nationalisation it became the new Centromin, with all its workers...

I interrupted you, when you arrived in Yauricocha what did you find? Did see a change in relation to what your life was like in the camp?
Well yes, I found a tremendous change because where I came from was a district, not only a mining camp. It was a relatively large district with a commercial life, there was electricity in the entire camp and in the communities themselves; the whole valley had electricity. At that time, until 1978 or 1979, the valley had an average of 8000 people, so it was big... So when I arrived in Yauricocha I found that it was a mining camp, purely a mining camp. There was not a single private house, not even to get accommodation. The only way was to stay with a relative or to know someone who lived in the camp. It was difficult for me at first, I wanted to go back, I couldn't get use to it, but I couldn't leave either because I had to find work in order to help my mother and my brother.
Section 4
Where did your mum stay?
She stayed in Goyllariquizca.

Oh, so she stayed there?
Yes, my mum stayed there. What she did is set up a business between La Oroya and Cerro de Pasco. She would go back and forth, but she lived in Goyllariquizca.

She got involved in that?
Yes, she got involved in that until she went to Tarma where she got involved in agriculture on a little plot of land she was able to buy. The truth is we were able to buy it with the whole family, my brothers over in Tarma.

So, in the end, your mum left the camp, the mining settlement, and went to the countryside?

Well, I interrupted you, so did you find work quickly when you arrived in Yauricocha?
Well, I arrived there and got in touch with a relative who was a Personnel Supervisor there and I gave my papers to the company. I passed the medical
exam and after I passed it, they observed me and they didn't want to take me. In reality they didn't want to hire workers who had studies, who had a secondary education, for example...

Why not?
Since I had a relative who was a Personnel Supervisor, he told me that my application had been assessed by the Camp Superintendent. He told him that the people who had more education were the biggest complainers, they were the strikers, he already knew this and he was never wrong, it always happened that way. My case was even worse because I came from Cerro and the ones from Cerro were the most rebellious, precisely the most rebellious. So I was rejected and they told me that if I wanted to work for the company I had to begin a trial period, I had to go through a contractor, a new contractor that had just arrived. If I succeeded over the three with the contractor, I could become permanent, and that's what happened. With in a week of my arrival I was working for a contractor. I started working, without any training they sent me to work. The contractor had to build new levels in the gallery and you can imagine I knew nothing about gallery work.
Everything was new to me; there were others who did know but out of all of us only two of us didn't know anything about the job and, as I told you, they hadn't trained us. They gave us, the ones on trial, the hardest jobs just to see if we could handle the work. But we started work and we tried to learn, we were always paying attention in order to learn everything and there was once a big problem in Yauricocha: what we miners call the mineral chupo, the mineral door, got stuck and prevented us from continuing to remove minerals. By then we had already learnt how to use the bulldozer; it was an Inco bulldozer that allowed us to remove great blocks of material. It belonged to the contracted company so they asked it to be in charge of removing, of clearing, the mine - the company asked them to do that. That's when they found that I worked well because I was driving the bulldozer and so we began to work from seven in the morning to seven in the evening - from seven to seven. And they didn't want us to stop, to rest for about three hours and to go back to work, until the problem was solved. That's how we spent our three months in with the contractor until, from one moment to the next, the company called me to tell me that they were going to give order so that I could be transferred. That's how I submitted my documents and became part of the company. Later they give trained me and I became specialised, they talk to me about safety, company regulations, it was like a school where they taught you everything; it was different from the contractor where they put you to work the next day. It wasn't like that here, they would train you a bit, at least.
Section 5
What had you heard your father, your miner brother, say? Did you find differences in the job, in life itself in the Yauricocha mine in relation to Cerro de Pasco where you had lived?
Well I don't remember much about my father because I didn't have the opportunity to talk to him because he died when I was young. What I do remember is speaking to my eldest brother and, from what he said, I think things had improved a lot. Yauricocha was more mechanised compared to Cerro, it was more modern, the ventilation was better. Anyway, it was better in all aspects. that's how I began to work in the company.

And was it hard work? I imagine it was less so than in the contractor - you had timetables, you worked less time.
Well, yes it was not as hard and, logically, we had more rights. things had changed a bit, especially after the nationalisation. It seems like the gringos (westerners, foreigners, in this context North Americans who ran/owned the mines) were more exploitative but, in addition, something particular happened to me...

What happened?
What happened was that they saw me playing football and, since I played more or less well, they asked me to become part of the camp's team. Those that played football were give a special regime, they took better care of us, they gave us the less tough jobs, the sedentary jobs, they called them, and that went in my favour while I was in the team.

Aha. Was that an advantage?
Yes, of course it was an advantage because at times, especially when we had championships, we worked part-time, they gave us benefits and they even gave us breakfast, that is, they took care of those who played ball.

And did you play in internal championships, among miners?
Yes, we played in an inter-camp championship, that's what they called them...
Section 6
And how did it go in the camp, were you a good team?
Yes, in fact, there were times when things went well, and other years they didn't, but, at least, we never did too badly...

Aha, you didn't do too badly. Tell me Felix, how was life in the camp, social life? Did you arrive there as a bachelor? Did you miss your camp, your family?
Well yes. I started working permanently for the company in 1978, although, as I told you, I arrived in Yauricocha in 1976. I already had my stable job and I had a room, my room to be able to live. One of the social problems in the social aspect in the Yauricocha camp was the problem of housing. If you were single you had to share a room in a house with four work-mates. The rooms were tiny - four by four, each of us had a bed in a bunkbed and there were no rooms left. When I arrived in 1978 or 1979, the company was just building a bit more modern housing. At the time some of my work-mates even had families - a wife and children - they had to live with another family, also in tiny rooms. Can you imagine married, two families living in one four by four room? That's what happened. That was a grave problem in Yauricocha. Then I decided to get married in 1979.

You arrived in 1978?
I entered the company in 1978 and...

And you got married in 1979, that is, a year after you began working for the company you get married?
Yes, of course, I got married in 1979, after a year.

And you met your partner in the camp?
Yes, of course, I met her over there in the camp.

Is she a worker's daughter?
Yes, she's a miner's daughter...

That's quite usual, isn't it, that marriages take place among miners, or
miners' families?
That generally happens when living in a camp. Many arrive single and they meet girls there, generally daughters or nieces of the workers, that's what usually happens.

Like you were sort of repeating the story of your parents?
Yes, of course, the story is repeated. Aside from myself, my brother also married a miner's daughter. So, as I was telling you, I decided to get married. I got married in the camp and I began a different life compared to when I was single. The first thing was to find housing which, as I was telling you, was very difficult. There was great demand for housing, I had just got married, but since I had no children I was not given priority. The company gave the best housing out according to points, the thing was according to points...

According to points? How was that?
The company said they established a system of points. If you were married, logically, you had a better option than a single worker, but for each child you got eight points in order to have priority over housing and the largest, most comfortable houses. Otherwise, you would still get the small ones. So, like this, the miners dedicated themselves to having more children; they would have loads of children just to have the best houses, but in the end it was all the same because, even though the houses were the largest, they would end up being the small because of the amount of people, of children, that lived there. That happened...
Section 7
Interesting. So, the company indirectly encouraged the workers to have more children using such measures?
Yes, that's what happened and, as I understand it, it still does. Of course, the miners did not realise, I don't think all of them did, that in that way you ended up having too many children and that led to not raising them well.

What about you, Felix, how many children did you have?
Well, I have five children...

Did they give you a big house? Ha,Ha.
No, the biggest house (laughter). I had my younger children when I was no longer in the camp, when I was fired.

So, how did it go in the camp, as a miner and a married man?
Well, my plans were never to stay there all my life. I wanted to work for a number of years, save and then do something else. I hoped to work only until 1980, save up some money, as I said, and retire. In any case my intention was to leave the mine.

What did you think of doing?
I thought about studying, my intention was to study, but from the moment I got married I had my first daughter and I realised things were not going to be that easy as I had more responsibilities. I tried my luck in 1980, I went on holiday, I had a sister that worked at the telecommunications company and she told me they needed people so I went to that company. I worked at that company for 30 days.

Where did you work?
I worked in Chanchamayo...

Aha. You came down from the Andes to the jungle?
Yes. I tried my luck but there were many factors. First that the weather in the jungle was too warm for me, I was use to living in the altitude, in the cold, the heat bothered me, I couldn't stand it. But also, I earned less at that company than at the mine and since, as I told you, my plan was to work another two years and save, I thought it would be better to stay in Yauricocha, working and saving.

What was the main reason for wanting to retire quickly from mining life? Did you not like it? Or, What was the main factor?
Well, probably many things. On one side, my father had died of a disease he acquired at the mine, that was a factor. I didn't want that to happen to me as well, I wanted to avoid that. But, also something occurred that made a mark on me, I had a friend, my best friend who also played football with me at the camp. One day in 1979 people were saying there had been a fatal accident and I asked who had it been and they said it was him, my friend. I went to see him, I saw how he had died, how he was. He had gone to get material to make an explosion with dynamite and it seems like something wasn't working and it exploded and he was destroyed. That made an impact on me and the next day I wrote my resignation letter; I had decided to quit but one of my relatives who worked at the company recommended that I think it over. He told me to ask for a holiday which I had to have and that over that time I would feel better. So, that's what I did. I asked for my holiday and I went to the jungle. After that I came back but I wasn't at peace anymore, my whole idea was to save and retire and in 1991 I had an accident...
Section 8
In 1991 or 1981?
In 1981, it was a cave-in, where I was working caved-in and I got out of there half-dead. I survived out of sheer luck. I was in hospital for almost year, I couldn't move...

Hospitalised for a year?
Yes, a whole year. I couldn't walk. My feet wouldn't respond and the doctors said it was possible that I could be an invalid. The fact was that it was a blow on my spine, nobody though I would be able to walk again, but slowly I began to recover movement in my feet and I was able to walk. Logically, it was not the same because I had received a blow on my spine. So I went back to work, of course not back to the mine, I applied for a bookkeeping job, but they rejected me. From that moment I began to work in different areas of the company and since the job was more peaceful, I just stayed, 1983, 1984. That's when another phase of my life began...

Because I joined the labour union. I began to have a degree of union participation. Because I was no longer isolated and I took up different positions, it was like I began to see the difficult reality of all the miners. Before in the hole, in the mine, it was more difficult. The work, the shifts reduced the possibility of having contact with everything but that changes once I get out. That was a very important change which motivated me to join union life. I began to read, to educate myself and to participate in the union. First I was a base delegate and later they elected me to the committee of Yauricocha union. That was a very enriching experience for myself, possibly one which has had the most impact in my life. Due to that activity I began to get to know not only about the issues of the miners in my camp but also about those in other camps because I ended up in the National Federation as Social Secretary. Likewise I met professionals and technicians from Lima who advised us and helped us to have greater success in our struggles. It was, as I said, a valuable experience which has been useful later in my life.

Were you a leader for long?
Well, yes, for some years, but what happened was that the company was hostile to me and in one of our struggles, in a general strike in our company, the directors of Centromin Peru took advantage of the circumstances and they fired me. They said I had committed a grave fault against one of my superiors because I had complained to him after one of our meetings that I had not been hostile to the leaders of my base. That's why I was fired.
Section 9
What did you do when they sacked you?
I complained; my base and my work-mates supported me, but the company using various tricks never took me back. In those years I was already a national leader of the Federation of Mining Workers and despite that or, even worse, because of that, they never wanted to take me back. I pursued a law suit for many years but I never achieved anything. Later, with time, it was more difficult to think that I would get my job back. That's what happened.

And what did you do? You were without work all of a sudden.
Well, yes, but what I want to say is that life as a labour union member, changed my life. I discovered a new world, I met people, as I told you before, and that opened my eyes. Perhaps if I had not joined union life I would have left the mine earlier, some years before, but it was that activity that stopped me from handing in my notice as I had planned. You can say that it gave my life a bit of different meaning and also I learned about a lot of things. My work-mates would come and ask me for advise, I learned how to help them by advising them on legal issues, occupational hazards and about other things I had picked up from the lawyers that helped us. When I was sacked by Centromin, lots of other national labour union leaders were sacked as well. To me that was revenge to put us aside because we were on strike. In this way, by sacking the leaders they thought they could behead the movement, but it wasn't like that because the struggle continued. Later the violence we all know - death disappearance of union leaders - came. That's how it happened. That's what happened in those years.

And in your particular case, what did you do?
I continued as a national leader for some years, despite being fired, as Defence Secretary. I participated in the Organising Committee of a National Congress that took place in Marcona in 1989 and I was elected Secretary of Social Relations at that Congress and from then on I worked on that. As part of the Federation I also presided over the Health Commission and looked at the problems of the miners' social security, occupational hazards and other problems, mining law and other things by consulting lawyers, doctors and NGOs and I really become specialised in the topic. When I completed my term and another Congress took place, this time in La Oroya, I had already been sacked; that is my dismissal had been confirmed at all judicial levels and at the Congress I was only elected as and Advisor. All those that were dismissed were appointed as union Advisors of the National Federation.

At the personal level, once you were sacked, did you lose your home? What happened to your family.
In reality, once I started to work at the Federation and since I was already dismissed, in reality I hardly return to the camp. For the first instances my family stayed in the camp until the company evicted us from the home we occupied. But, since my father in law was also a worker at the company, my wife and daughter stayed in the camp for some time until I found a new place to relocate. Finally, with my wife we decided to settle in Huancayo, we had family there and we decided it would be the best place for us and our children. We started out in a small plot building with rustic material a small room to live in. At first we were shocked because we had never lived in such a big city. My wife and daughters were shocked at first because they especially had been accustomed to live in the mining camp all their lives. But then they start getting use to it...
Section 10
I imagine it was an important change for all of you.
Yes, of course, it was an important change at first, we had all lived in mining camps, we were miners, we were miners since our families - grandfathers and fathers - but as time goes by one notices that in a camp one lives locked up and removed from the world, from the outside. What exists there is only the world of miners and they have us locked up, that happens. I think the businessmen have us locked up on purpose, so that we won't find out we can do other things. The miner believes, I believed with the passage of time, that if work ends the world ends, that he can't do anything else, that he will die of hunger - he and his family - but that is not true. On the contrary, one lives locked up there between the mine and the camp and that is no life. That's why the miner from the sierra (mountain), from the Andes, looks sad, because he is locked up, he doesn't have true freedom. Since I became a union leader I realised that, that the company played like that, that it was convenient. I realised you can do a lot of things; in the camp you don't think because you are locked away. For example the old workers become careless and when they lose their jobs they feel lost. Now, when I go back I speak to the miners and I try to explain to them that life is different and that one has to learn and not be afraid to leave and to believe that another life can be lived outside the camp and that they should fight against being locked up. The miners lack orientation in terms of what they can do with their savings, about their rights, and I also tried to do that with the help of some institutions.

What did you dedicate yourself to once your job as Advisor was over?
Well, my family changed activities, we got involved in business; a bit of business in Huancayo, of trade, sale of fair goods, and we also started to sell at the mines, in the camps near Huancayo.

Have you returned to Yauricocha, to your camp, over these years?
Yes, of course I returned...

Have you found changes in the camps? What do you think has changed?
Well, yes there are many changes. One of the changes I have found is that people now conform easily, they conform more than before. They don't care now, there's lack of solidarity. It wasn't like that before; it's an important change. The only thing people are interested in is being able to work, that's all. They don't care if someone gets sacked or if something happens to somebody else. I think it was really different before. The unions are too far from what they were before, that has also happened.

What do you see as the prospects for the miners? How do you see the future of the miners?
Well, the prospects are dark. There's no longer stability, people know they can be sacked at any moment, you can be expelled and nobody will demand anything, not even himself. Since 1992 10,000 miners have been sacked from Centromin and this year 2000 more will be fired. Can you imagine what the prospects are? All this is because they are going to sell the company, they are going to privatise, and all those miners are going to be on the streets, those are the prospects...All those families will have to leave the camps and when I speak to them they don't know what to do. I tell them not to be scared that they can be useful outside of the mines, but the company has scared them, that's what happened. Some of them leave with a bit of money and they don't know what to do; they invest it, they put in bad banking institutions and they lose it, that happens.
Section 11
And for you, what do you see as your future since you left the mine? I'll confess something to you, it's like I feel that you never really wanted to be a miner, it's like you were always thinking about leaving, about saving and leaving, isn't that right? That's what you have told us in your testimony.
Yes, that happened. I didn't want to stay too long. I always thought about leaving, maybe because I already knew the miner's life well. You could say my family is family of miners. I knew what had happened to my father. There's a saying that they say around here that "there's nothing sadder than an old miner." First of all, I can tell you, it is difficult to find an old miner because they die young. Life expectancy is 40, 45 because their lungs don't resist. That's what happened to my father. When we speak about contamination we have to keep in mind that the miners are contaminated before anyone else and they die. What you can find is widows like my mother and most of them spend their old age abandoned if their children don't take care of them. I think that's what made a mark in my life and that's probably why didn't want to remain as a miner.

Perhaps your phase as a labour unionist was a way of leaving the mine.
My phase as a labour unionist was a way of fighting for the miners. I though that if you fought you could change things so that's what I did. We achieved some things but not others and they sacked me. Yes, I left after being a labour unionist but I didn't escape, that's what happened.

Do you think that even though you and your wife come from mining families, that tradition, we shall say, will not be repeated in your case? What do you want for your children?
Well, what I see is that, having lived this, I wouldn't want my children to continue the tradition, although I come from a mining family since my father and grandfather were miners. Whatever they maybe - workers or engineers - I wouldn't like them to be involved in mining because, whatever they do, their lungs will always be aggravated by the dust of the mines. In addition, that does not only affect the workers, it also affects their families because in the camps, in the houses, there is also contamination. I have read that in some of the books you have published. Knowing about this, I would speak to my children about it. Maybe you earn a bit more in the mines than in other places, but you don't play with your health. I think differently now. Before, my family - my father, my grandparents - would say, "We have to maintain the mining blood in our family." They wanted their children to be miners. I don't think that way. I don't want my children to go to the mines.

That's an important change. So, the Durand family, as far as you are concerned, will not continue the family tradition for sure?
No, no they will not continue.

How many children do you have? I think you told me.
I have five children, three girls and two boys.
Section 12
What would you like them to do?
Well, I would like them to study. In short, let them do what they want to, but I frankly would not like them to go to the mines. They are still studying now. The eldest will complete secondary school and the youngest is just three years old. That's my family.

You wouldn't like a miner for a son in law, would you?
Well, one cannot decide everything about the children's future either. One gives advise, help, but I would prefer that they do not go through what I went through.

Did you recuperate completely from the accident you had?
Well, yes. Of course I can't exercise much, but I haven't lost my sense. I can move normally...However, despite the short time I was at the mine, I have acquired an occupational illness; I have caught pneumoconiosis at 41%. I have to be careful and control the disease so that it does not spread. I haven't had problems yes; I hope it stays that way and I don't have major health problems. I have seen a lot of my work-mates with severe occupational illnesses and they can't take care of themselves any more or work-mates that have had work accidents and have been handicapped. That almost happened to me and, if it had happened, what would have happened to my family? I have always tried to avoid this for myself and my family. Now, despite the bad, we are going forward and I don't forget I was a miner because a miner is marked for the rest of his life. I don't complain about having been a miner and I am always in touch with the miners. I support the Association of Retired Miners of the Centre with their needs. I give them my support, I advise them with what I can, with the little I have been able to learn, but it is definitely a period that has passed and of which I have good memories and not so good memories. All that has been useful for me in life and I think I have taken advantage of the experience. I can tell you that.

Your life has definitely had many changes and I see that it has been rich in experiences.
Yes, and I can't complain about that. I don't things have gone too badly for me, I can't complain and I hope my children's future will be good. That's what a parent can hope for his children. That's...

Well, Felix, thank you very much for the interview and we also hope things continue to work out well for you and that the living and working conditions of the miners and their families improve significantly.