photo of Indian woman Garwhal and Kumaon
India
 
GLOSSARY
India glossary

Champal

(INDIA 24)

Sex

male

Age

90

Occupation

trader

Location

Harsil and Virpur villages, Bhagirathi valley, Utt

Date

December 1996

 

transcript

Section 1
What is your name?
Champal Singh.

How old are you?
90 years.

How many members are there in your family?
Two sons, the elder son's wife, three grandchildren and the two of us. We are a total of 8 members. The elder son is with the goats and horses. [He does not mention his two married daughters.]

Is yours a joint family, does everyone live separately?
Usually, some four to five years after marriage young people do set up a separate household. Our elder son and his wife have separated from the joint family, and the place where we are presently sitting is his.

What is the distribution of workload between men and women like in your family?
Girls and women do the spinning of wool and weaving - they make rugs, shawls and blankets and sell them. The men used to do laad (procuring the raw materials). The materials were carried on the backs of goats and sheep in saddlebags and taken to Pauri from Rishikesh, Tehri, Uttarkashi and other places. This was the custom earlier. Now people rear goats and sheep for breeding purposes only. Some have 500, some 800... nobody has less than 100.

Do all villagers have goats?
Earlier everybody had goats but now few people keep them. Half the villagers have stopped rearing them. They have their own business or shop. They get wool and sell it.

How many people were educated in your family earlier, and how many are there now?
I am not educated. Nobody was earlier. Tehri was a [princely] state and education did not spread in the valley. So we were all uneducated. Gradually motor vehicles came into this region. At first they could reach only up to Dharasu, but now they go all the way up to Gangotri.
Section 2
What arrangements for education were there when you were young? What are they like these days?
Earlier there were schools but not so many. Now they are there everywhere. We have an intermediate school in the village, a degree college in Uttarkashi, an intermediate college in Bhatwadi and a high school in Harsil.

Are boys and girls still carrying on their traditional work, or are they getting an education?
Mostly they are going to school - even the girls are. Both boys and girls are getting educated. Earlier even the boys did not have schools to go to, let alone girls.

What was the usual age of marriage in your family?
Earlier, marriages were performed at a very young age. Now the girl has to be 18 years and the boy 21. If a person gets a government job then the age of marriage goes up to 25 years.

As there were no doctors earlier how did you treat the sick?
The Tibetan lamas (Buddhist priests) used to feel the pulse and prescribe some herbal medicines. We had no knowledge of this treatment.

What was the impact of the 1962 Indo-China war on your family, and upon the village?
The major impact has been that now we do not get wool and salt from Bhot (Tibet) to sell in the Rama-Sirai area and buy rice in exchange. The war has finished this trade. But now there are fair price shops in each village and we do not have to go anywhere. There are lots of facilities provided to everyone. Everybody is enjoying life.

What do you think has been the influence of modern facilities like TV, films and transportation on your family and society?
I think that families are getting better informed about our own country and the outside world.

What would you wish your sons and grandsons to be?
I would like them to be officers... Deputy, police officers...

Could you tell me the history of your community and your village? Where have you come from?
Some of us have come from Himachal - mostly Negis. Some have come from Pauri - British Garhwal. Some are Ranas, some Rawats, and Bhandaris too. Most of us have come from Himachal.

How long have you been living in this village?
Earlier we lived in Melang, Jadung and Harsil. Now there are three villages on top and only one, Virpur, here. Dunda is the village of the landlords and Virpur is ours. This has been gifted to us by the King of Tehri, Narendra Shah. That's how we settled here. Earlier we had crude thatched huts. Now they are all pucka (solidly built) houses.

Did you like the huts or do you prefer these [cement-iron houses]?
The cement-iron ones are definitely better. We come here during winter and go to Harsil in summer.
Section 3
Did people help and support each other more in earlier times? Is it the same nowadays?
It was quite a lot earlier. Outside influences have reduced the feelings people had for each other. Everybody has become clever. Earlier whatever the seniors ordered was followed by the entire village. People lived with greater harmony.

What are the other professions in the Jaad caste?
We have blacksmiths, drum beaters, and weavers. There are no sweepers. These are all landlords. There are the masons who build houses.

Since yours is a backward tribe, what government facilities are given to you?
There are fair price shops, and we have reservations. We have counted that within the last four years around 68 to 69 young men have got government jobs.

Do you feel happy at this?
Oh yes, we are very happy. Every family has a salaried member. The old parents are living in comfort. Since they are government employees, they also get lots of dowry.

Did people have jobs earlier?
Not in my days. They did their own work like weaving wool, grazing the goats, and made and sold woollen things.

In the old days, I was told that people made and maintained their own roads. How did you construct or repair the roads while going on a trip to Tibet?
Those days people of all the three villages worked together. All those who went to Bhot (Tibet) used to sit together to take decisions and we all used to make bridges and repair the roads together. An astrologer was consulted and an auspicious day fixed to start the upward journey. We carried rice, barley, wheat, uva (variety of barley), barley, jhangora (barnyard millet) and fafra (buckwheat). We brought back salt from there.

What kind of relationship did you have with the landowners? Is there any change in it now?
The landowners believe that they are Rajputs and we are tribals. We told them that they have the same kind of caste structure as we do. Just as they have blacksmiths and masons so do we. We used to marry within the caste, never outside, but now even that is happening. Earlier the grooms came from Himachal or British Garhwal (Kumaon).

Did you contract marriages with the landlord community?
Not earlier but after Independence, yes.

Most young men are seeking jobs outside. Will it not affect your traditional profession adversely?
No. You see, now the girls are getting smart too - even smarter that the men. We have women pradhans (head of panchayat) too.
Section 4
Was there any institution like the panchayati (village council) system earlier, to manage village affairs?
Earlier I was a malguzar (village chief). I held this post for 33 years. We used to get together for deciding who should be selected for this post. After the selection the papers used to go to the King of Tehri. A certificate was issued from there for the appointment. The malguzar used to collect taxes and give it to the patwari (functionary in the Revenue Office). For collecting the tax, the share of the malguzar was 50 paise out of every rupee. Everybody had to pay in cash - not in kind like food grains and things. The land used to be two to three or five to six canals (unit of land measurement) only. Mostly assets were in the form of goats and sheep.

How did the government officials behave with the public in earlier days?
Those days the working of the government officials was very good. They were mindful of the fact that they were dealing with the poor or the rich, and worked accordingly. Now it is not so. Everyone is treated in the same manner.

Did you have to perform forced labour during the King's regime? Have you also done it?
Oh, yes. We had to go to various places, look after the trees. After eating our ration, we had to carry the food supplies for the forest department people also. After the fall of the Tehri Government, this system has come to an end. All those who had less land for cultivation are also not being taxed now.

Where all did you have to work like slaves?
Whenever the rangers or foresters came we were forced to carry their luggage to the forest. If the village patwari came we had to look after his living arrangements, arrange grass for his horse and supply girls.

While travelling up and down, were you supposed to pay any tax at the state toll posts?
Not initially, but in between a tax was imposed. The ration that we carried for personal use was exempt from tax but the rest that we carried for trade was taxed heavily. Some had to pay more than Rs 100. I have paid tax up to Rs 40.

How were the disputes solved, earlier?
If people fought at night, after drinking chang (homemade wine), they would gather together again in the morning and start drinking again to establish a friendly atmosphere. Then they would strike a compromise. There was no ill will left. If the dispute ever took a serious turn, then both parties were called and counselled. The party which was found more guilty offered a bottle or a kettle of chang with due respect, across a carpet, along with other senior persons. The matter used to end there.

What is your religion? Which god do you worship?
Our original religion is Buddhism but we follow both (Hinduism and Buddhism). We worship Lord Rama and Shiva equally, as we do the Dalai Lama.
Section 5
How did you embrace Buddhism, do you have any idea?
In the month of Falgun (February/March) we hoist a flag in the name of Lord Buddha. We start making chang ten to 12 days in advance, gather in each otherís houses, drink, dance, make merry to the beat of drums. Long ago, somebody came from Tibet and settled down here and spread Buddhism. These were not our ancestors.

Are you their descendants?
No, we are different. Earlier they were also different but now they have merged with us.

In addition to Buddha, what other lamas do you follow?
All the lamas, namely the Dalai Lama after Buddha, Karma Lama, Atara Lama, Sagya Lama, Chili Lama etc. We do read the scripture inside [the temple]. One of my daughters has also become a nun - the eldest one. She went to the Dalai Lama [monastery in Himachal Pradesh] three years ago. Now she has gone to Buddha Kashi - Gayakashi.

Do you consider it good to make your children lamas?
So far we have not allowed this to happen. In Himachal, thousands have turned lamas. From here nobody has gone. Only my daughter has gone. She is educated up to 12th standard and has mastered the Tibetan language.

Where did your daughter learn the Tibetan language?
The lamas came here. They not only taught my daughter but several other girls too.

Is there a monastery here?
Yes, there is one here. There are three lamas there. Earlier they visited only occasionally but now, since their temple has been made, they live here permanently. Two lamas always live here. They do not teach the Tibetan language. For this and for performing prayer the head lama comes.

What was your dress in the old days? What did the women wear?
We wore the same pyjama and kurta (loose fitting trousers and collarless shirt) and woollen coat. The women wore a long woollen shirt and blanket, silver round the neck, for the nose, and gold.

If wool had to be dyed, where did you get the dye from?
We got it from outside, from the plains since we had no dyes available locally. We made dye out of walnut shells.

What are the religious and social customs of your community?
In our community if an old man or woman, follower of Buddhism, dies then within seven days the death anniversary is observed. The whole village is invited to have two meals. On the fourth day after the death watery rice with coconut, and two pulses are cooked and fed to the children. No money is given. Marriages are arranged after making sure of the family background and according to one's means dowry is given to the girl. The rich give gold jewellery and horses and goats whereas common people give silver ornaments.
Section 6
Earlier was any money given to the bride's side in exchange for the girl?
Out of the question. On the contrary it was given by the girl's side. And, if anybody (parents) refused to give the girl her rightful money - that family was socially ostracised.

What were the food habits earlier? What changes have there been?
Earlier it was very coarse. We ate roti (bread) made of fafra, and pounded barley cooked with spices. We used to eat roti of mandua (finger millet). Now fafra, mandua, barley, everything has been abandoned and only rice and wheat flour roti is eaten.

Do you still go to the high Gelang village?
No, we have stopped going to Gelang for the last seven to eight years. The government, because of the threat from communist China, has turned it into a military outpost and taken over the entire area. We have all been given a little compensation for our land and the matter is still under consideration.

How much compensation has been given? Did the government promise to give more?
Yes. The government forces occupied that area and we did not think it proper to continue living there with our families. So we vacated it. Almost half the compensation has not yet been given to us. Charpani near Rishikesh is the place where we have been living for the past 50 to 60 years. Even that land has not been given to us. We have been corresponding with the government but to no avail.

What was the traditional profession of your community? What are the changes that you see now?
Earlier we used to go to Tibet, buy goat and khadu (male sheep reared for wool) and sell them. We also used to bring ghee (clarified butter), butter, horses and salt and sold it here.

What livestock did you rear earlier and which ones do you rear now?
Earlier we had khassi (goat kids), goats and khadu. They were used for carrying goods. Later on we started keeping she goats and sheep (for breeding). These we are rearing even nowadays. We also rear cows for milk. Those who do not have cows use powdered milk.

Do you have some social customs, which if not followed by a person, result in his social boycott?
If a boy marries a girl from a lower class then he is socially boycotted and treated as an outcast. To begin with nobody can marry like this, but in the event of such a marriage the boy, on his own, segregates himself.

Why do you - the Jaad community - have the habit or custom of drinking chang? Does it have some special significance?
We make chang during marriages, especially for the marriage procession. Each family makes chang for its own consumption and not for sale. But now people are also selling it. There are about 11 families who haven't come back from Harsil and the sale of liquor is very high there.
Section 7
Were there any customs earlier that included dancing? Do you still observe these now?
The men sit on one side and the women on the other - they sing and dance and drink.

Who performs marriages - the lamas or the brahmins (Hindu priests)?
Both, lamas as well as brahmins, since we respect and follow both.

Has your Jaad community ever started any protest, e.g. banning drinking or any other movement?
Of course. The bootleggers and sellers were caught and fined and also sent to jail but released on bail. They had to pay another fine after the court judgement.

Do you know if any Jaad trader from here went and settled down in Tibet or anywhere outside?
No, nobody has settled down in Tibet. People from Himachal and Chamoli district (Bhotiyas) have settled down here. Our people have not migrated.

Has nobody migrated from this area?
No. There are many officials of this area but nobody has migrated. Earlier we never arranged a girl's marriage outside this region. But for the last two years people have started marrying their girls outside. Earlier we normally arranged marriages within this area. We are about 300 families here.

Do you offer goats to your deities?
Yes, we do. This has been stopped for the last two to three years. The lamas say that goat slaughter is a sin. We tell the lamas that if goats are not offered to the deities they will get angry. The lamas tell us that if the deities get angry we should tell the deities that the lamas stop us from doing so.

Do you like living in the mountains or want to go out?
Well, naturally we want to be in the hills in summer and here, in the lower regions, in winter, but definitely do not want to leave this place. For instance, we would not like to go to Dehra Dun as it's hot there. We might live there in winters but will come up again during summer.

What are the major mountains and rivers of your area, which you have visited?
I have been up to Tibet. We carried fafra, barley and jhagryal rajma (variety of bean) there, and brought back cha baadi (delicacy prepared by vapourising buttermilk) from there. Now it must be costing about Rs 100 per kg.

When you lived in the higher regions what were the major crops?
Potato, fafra, rajma (beans) and cheena (local variety of wheat). Here we have no farming at all.
Section 8
What is your staple diet?
We do eat roti but basically we have rice both the times. The old people drink salted tea but the young have sugar in their tea. Water is boiled then lafdi or Bhotiya tea (salty tea drank by Bhotiya) is added to it. It is then put in a thick bamboo pot and nicely tossed after adding salt and butter to get good salted tea.

Can you tell me which are the major festivals and fairs of the year?
There are two major annual fairs. One is celebrated in the Magh (January/February) month. During this month Lord Buddha is remembered and people gather and drink chang, dance and play. A cloth flag is hoisted. The second one is celebrated in Harsil in the month of Bhadan (August/September). During this time two to three goats are sacrificed near the deities because if it is not done the deities might get annoyed. The lamas oppose this.

What was music and dancing like in your society earlier? What is it like now?
One type is prevalent in Harsil in the month of Bhadan and the other here, in the month of Magh. During marriages goats are slaughtered and the Losar dance is performed. The groom's side receives a bottle of liquor from each family and if a particular family cannot afford it, then it takes a kettle of chang instead.

Is the new society drinking more or opposing it?
Earlier young boys did not drink much. Now even the old people have left it. Seeing the old, the new generation also drinks less.

What is the special skill of the Jaad people?
Spinning wool and trading it was the main skill. Secondly we used to get horses, goats, kadu (?) and salt from Tibet. Now this is not permitted.

Are the educated youths learning the art of spinning wool in your society?
No. They are busy studying.

Do you not feel that the knowledge about wool is essential along with education?
The wool-related jobs are now performed only by the old women. The young boys and girls only study.

When do you go up and in which months you come down?
We go up in the month of Baisakh (April/May) and are back in the month of Kartik (October/November).

How did you carry goods for commerce earlier?
We carried bedding, utensils and ration on horses and other items on sheep and goats. Everyone travelled together.
Section 9
When you went up, who looked after your houses here?
We had only thatched huts and it was no problem to leave them behind. Now we have cement houses.

While travelling up what were the arrangements for women in labour?
First of all it never happened. If at all it happened we used to stay put in one place for sometime, rested and the woman used to be fed ghee, butter etc and rested for fourteen to fifteen days.

How did you preserve seeds for agriculture in the upper region?
At that height the houses are made of deodar (Himalayan cedar) and the seeds were preserved in wooden boxes. So they did not go bad at all. The seeds do not get spoiled for three to four years since it's very cold up there.

Did you make your own seeds or bought them from outside?
Bought them from outside, from the local landlords. There are six villages in Harsil, namely Dharali, Mukhwa, Jaspur, Jhala, Purali and Sukhi. We used to borrow seeds from these places also.

What was the economic status of the people of your community? Were people mostly rich or poor?
Mostly people were poor. The rich of those days have turned paupers. This goes on.

How did you construct your houses?
We used to cut down a deodar tree for this. Along with wood stone was used for construction. The roof used to be of deodar wood. Though slates were available, only wood was used for the roof. Earlier on everybody made their houses themselves. Later, people used to gather together and collectively did the construction work. The villagers render help for construction of houses by others.

Where did you get the masons from? Were they from your caste or some different caste?
We have masons among us but whenever there was a greater workload masons were called from outside.

How many stopovers were there while travelling from Nelang to Tibet for your commerce and trade and how long did it take you to reach there?
There were nine of them: Nelang to Chagla, from Chagla to Maratir, to Pursachu, to Hope, to Chaglai, to Punlang. The major market was in Punlang. The Tibetans also came to Punlang and it was there that the trade took place.

Did you have friends in Tibet or some businessmen with whom you traded? What were your relations like with these people?
We had only trade relations with them. They also grew only uva and fafra, nothing else. Some of them became our friends and gave us salt and also came to Nelang for business.
Section 10
What were the prices like those days?
I used to buy one seer (approx. 1kg) of ghee for only four of six rupees and 14 to 16 seers of rice for one rupee. Now the price of 1 kg of ghee is Rs 120.

What were the means of transport earlier? How did you travel from one place to the other?
We used to walk up to Rishikesh earlier and carried the luggage on our back. Those who had horses used to carry the luggage on horses. Otherwise the poor used to carry their loads on their backs.

When you got the goods from Tibet where did you go to sell these?
We used to sell it here, in this valley itself. Now we do send the local things outside also.

How did you treat sick cattle earlier?
Earlier when the livestock had diseases like bama of the goats and fafar of the sheep, many animals died. We had no treatment for these diseases. Now the government has provided doctors both for human beings and animals.

Did you have any knowledge of medicines (herbs) to treat the animals?
No, no knowledge at all.

What herbs are found in your forests?
We have laddu (like chives), chora (root used for seasoning), varaja, hath panja (herb with a five-pronged leaf), attis, (aconite) kadwi, meetha (poisonous herb), etc.

Do these herbs have medicinal value?
Yes, the root of meetha is a medicine for most ailments if consumed in small quantity. An overdose can be fatal too. The lamas prescribe the dosage. For headache, cold and fever attis is given.

Do you worship your ancestors here?
No. We hoist flags in the name of Lord Buddha.

What was the social status of women earlier. Has it changed now?
The women looked after the entire household while we left for trade. They did everything. We used to get jewellery made for them. Women have become very advanced and have left men behind. We do not have to teach them anything, they can read everything. Now we do have women panchayat members and pradhans.

How were the widows treated in society in earlier days? What is the their status now? How do they manage affairs?
They lived in great poverty in earlier days. They were either helped by the parents or some well to do relatives. Some were looked after by the villagers.
Section 11
Was widow re-marriage permitted?
It did take place, in cases where the women were very young they re-married.

What was the chief occupation of your community?
Wool. Our main occupation was connected with wool. We used to make a gadda (pit) put wood inside and keep the loom on it and weave cloth. Now many people here have picked up this skill. But earlier only the weavers did weaving. These weavers came from Himachal.


Did you not weave woollen cloth earlier?
No, women used to spin wool but they gave it to the weavers for weaving. The women did make dumkhar and pattoo (coarse blankets) at home. Now our people can weave on the handloom. We buy the handloom from the government.

How do you sell the locally made woollen stuff, since earlier you used to go places. How do you manage it now?
Now the buyers come home on their own to buy dumkhar, pankhi (woollen shawl), pattoo, chaddar (black woollen shawl), etc. Even the government representatives buy things. We do get 2000-4000 bags of wool - even that is bought by the government department.

What is the price of various items?
The cost of a blanket ranges between 600-700, coat material costs Rs 1200 and the patheda (long woollen belt) for the waist costs anything between 300-400.

How are the roads and electricity supply here?
Earlier there were no roads, no buses. One had to carry things on one's back. Now we have roads and electricity.

What did you use in place of electricity earlier?
We used lanterns, burnt chilke (strips of dried pine or bhimal bark which burn slowly and were used as lighting) at night which we fetched from the forest. Now we have electricity here as well as in Harsil.

What fruits are grown here? What is your opinion regarding growing fruits?
We have apples pears and chulu (apricots), grapes, almonds, walnuts. After Independence more fruits are being grown.

In your opinion, was it better under the regime of the Tehri King or the present government?
The present times are better. Earlier we had to give begar (forced revenue) like milk, ration, rice, pulses, ghee, grass for the horses. Now it is no longer so. But things have become very expensive.
Section 12
Do you speak one language or is it different?
The zamindars (landowners) speak your language but our language is different, eg water - choo, bullock - mau, house - khankha, goat - raoo, male sheep, khalda, male goat, raoo horse - ta, cow - pa.

Does your language resemble the language of Bhotiyas from Chamoli?
Our language is more like the Tibetan language, not like other languages. In my view this language has come here from Tibet.

Do you feel that tourism is in keeping with the local culture or bad for it?
Itís difficult for me to comment. Only pandits (priests) can enter the Gangotri temple. Foreigners go with their boots on and nobody stops them. They also go everywhere in the Himalayas. Even the locals have been accompanying them as labour.

How were the forests earlier and how are they now?
I have heard that four District Forest Officers have been suspended in connection with forest cutting. Many forest department officials along with the forest corporation (government public company) have been cutting green trees and destroying the forest wealth. Earlier the forests were very good. No plundering was ever reported. It was a dense forest. There was one Mr Hudsingh (Wilson) who taught the local hill people how to cut wood and look after the forest. Nobody here, in those days, had any idea of wood cutting, carrying and caring for the forest. There is a huge house where he lived - it is as big as an entire village, in Harsil. He married a girl in Dharali (Mukhwa). Later on he got mad and shot two people dead. He was caught. Now that house is under government possession. There is an apple orchard there.

What types of trees were found in the higher forests?
Banj (oak) and moru (variety of oak, found at higher altitude) are not found there. Bhojpatra (birch) is found there. The pandits (priests) take it down to the plains. Cedar and pine is also found.

Do you have any knowledge of a flood or an earthquake which affected this area?
We did have earthquakes but they caused no harm. But the one in 1991 devastated the entire region. We had floods in 1979, which caused havoc and loss of men and property. Entire villages and cattle were washed away.

Did you ever have any famine?
No, never.

Do you feel that, compared to the earlier days, the weather pattern is changing?
Yes, it is changing now.

Earlier when you migrated up and down along with so much livestock, what was the condition of the grazing grounds and the grass?
On the heights the bugyals (meadows) are beautiful. They are Syom Bugyal, Brahm Konk, Brahmni, and Chuhadar. All four were very good.
Section 13
What fruits were found in the forests?
Wild jamun jamain, plums, bhugul (?), paikhub, tun, naiee and many others.

What vegetables grew in the forests?
Chinudi and saal used to grow wild.

What wild animals were there?
We had barad (wild sheep), minda (male sheep), doun, shingoo (types of high altitude animals), syan (tiger) chyanoo (bear) etc.

Will you narrate some anecdote connected with your caste or region?
I do not remember any.

What was the system of punishing people in Tibet?
If somebody committed theft, dacoity (gang robbery) or murder and was caught then he was whipped till he died. If not caught, he was at large.

What are the places of pilgrimage for your people?
They are Dhuliman, Rarasa, Dhomba.

Have you seen lamas?
Yes.

Where?
There have been 12 reincarnations so far and the 13th one is ready. He may be seen in Nepal and Himachal and various other places. When he visited India it was during the time of the Congress Government.

Can only monks of your caste live amidst you or do you allow others also to stay here?
Others can also live.

What offerings are made at the Gangotri temple?
Tibetan kishmish (raisins) and coconut are offered.

Why do you put this flower on your cap?
This flower is found in Bhanwar (Rishikesh). From there it is sent to Himachal and Tibet and sold for Rs 2 per flower. It's specially worn during festivals and for marriage processions. It is called chumbaka.

Thank you very much Mr. Champal Singh. You really spared so much time for us. How much did you pay to the forest department when you travelled with your sheep and goats?
We paid them at the rate of Rs 1 and 3 per goat and sheep respectively. Whereas in Rishikesh the charges were Rs 2 and 5 per goat and sheep.
Section 14
When you have to travel through the villages do the villagers trouble you?
Yes, they did. We were not allowed to camp for more than three days because they said that we would be consuming all their grass.

Did you have to pay to the villagers also?
We had to if we stayed longer - about Rs 200 or 250.

What are the sheep shearing seasons?
They are three, once in Bhadan, in hills, second time in Margsheesh (November/ December), and then in Falgun month.

Do you sell the wool yourself or the government takes it?
All the wool is taken by the government at the rate of Rs 1 per kg.

What do you pay to the boys who go with the goats?
We give four sheep and four goats to them every year. The total cost comes to Rs 3000. They are also provided with food. I own 350 goats and four horses and have two servants. I also have two joyi; it is a cow found in Tibet. Its milk yield is much higher than the mountain cows. The colour of the milk is yellowish and has more butter content.

How do you feel about the fact that your daughter has become a nun?
One of my daughters has become a nun. She keeps going to Kashi, Varanasi and Mussoorie. Her name was Sukardayi but now her name is Chow. People hold the view that in the case of her becoming a perfect nun she'll be taking her parents also to Heaven. The lamas also hold this view. My daughter has travelled a lot and learnt that many girls had become nuns. Now there are two very small boys of the village who have become monks.